Throughout the history of ufology, researchers have been attempting to make sense of both the technology and the nature of the intelligences behind the anomalous phenomena that have been observed and interacted with. Inevitably, those researchers have ended up looking to emerging human science and technology for potential understanding. And so, not surprisingly, leading conceptions of what the UFO Phenomenon represents have evolved over time as our own technology and models of reality have evolved.

The issue with this, however, is that we are often not accounting for how our modern conceptions are tied to the myth-making that human beings inevitably engage in in order to make sense of who we are, and indeed, what this (i.e. reality) is. And in that sense, of course, we are following in the footsteps of our ancestors who did the very same thing. To be alive is to engage in such narrative-framing. Looking backwards, we are often quick to belittle earlier myth-making attempts, accusing our ancestors of being naive, unscientific story-tellers, while simultaneously completely missing the fact that we too weave narratives about reality, also often based on notions we lack solid evidence for.

This is why the UFO Phenomenon emerges as the simultaneously intoxicating but confounding and discombobulating matter it is. Fascinatingly—and perhaps tellingly— it often seems to manifest in such a way as to poke holes in our latest myth. And in so-doing, it helps those within the societal structure—those with a keen and discerning eye, that is—to see our collective narrative as such, as myth.

Note here that myth doesn’t necessarily mean “untrue”, it just refers to a society’s collective sense of “the real”. The data arising from these ufological investigations so often confounds our consensus conceptions of reality that it’s fair to ask if that may indeed be one of the central purposes of the entire enigma. Before us, of course, were those who framed reality within a theological lens. In going through this very same process, they too ran into the very same conundrum, leading them to, like us, often exclude, ignore or explain away the elements that “didn’t play well” with the contemporary myth.

How are we to proceed with these considerations in mind? Is it a fool’s errand to chase a specter that seems to change its guise just when we think we’ve pinned it down? Or should we accept that this game of hide and seek involves stretching our very understanding of what’s possible? These are the simultaneously mystifying but mesmerizingly captivating matters we’ll seek to engage with in this, the 113th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

Over the course of 90+ episodes of Point of Convergence, save for one episode with James Iandoli, on the topic of CE-5, or HICE: human initiated contact events, this show has not followed the common podcast interview format. The reason for that is that there are already plenty of shows that follow the common interview pattern. My goal here has generally been to offer solo deep dives on various aspects of the UFO Phenomenon and associated topics that include, among others, NDEs, OBEs, and psi phenomena.

That said, as in the case of my interview with James Iandoli – who represents a wealth of wisdom on so-called “contact work” – I do find it helpful to include the thoughts of others when that person represents what I would deem a paragon in their field. This is true in today’s episode, which features my recent conversation with philosopher Bernardo Kastrup.

Bernardo’s work has been featured prominently in this podcast. His analytic idealism framework has been influential in my own aim to make sense of the dizzying and sometimes discombobulating array of phenomena associated with anomalous encounters with UFOs/UAP and apparent aliens. His book Meaning in Absurdity: What Bizarre Phenomena Can Tell Us About the Nature of Reality is especially pertinent to our overarching subject of interest, and I highly recommend it.

As an idealist, Bernardo’s view is that base reality is ultimately mental in nature; like a dream held in what he calls “Mind at Large”, or that others might call Source consciousness, or Original Mind. I have found that seeing not just the UFO Phenomenon and related paranormal encounters, but reality itself, in this light, is extremely helpful in making headway in these tricky, murky waters. With that introduction aside, let’s move to part 1 of my 2 part discussion with philosopher Bernardo Kastrup, in this, the 91st episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.