The contingent of the UFO community known for holding a “nuts ‘n bolts” perspective has no doubt found recent developments within the space rather, shall we say, disconcerting. And that’s because, as time has gone on, the consciousness aspect of the conversation about UAP and NHI has only become more and more central; now even openly talked about by scientists and congresspeople seeking to wrap their heads around this age-old conundrum.

While recent years have seen a growing shift toward a consciousness-centric view of the phenomenon, this perspective is hardly new. For early pioneers like Jacques Vallée and John Keel, consciousness was central to understanding the UFO mystery. Additional key figures—such as Russel Targ and Hal Puthoff—also clearly saw the connection, and sought to research it in official capacity within programs funded by the US government.

Sitting alongside these paragons of new thought was the man we’re going to focus on today: Ingo Swann, credited with being the founder and architect of modern remote viewing protocols, and especially the structured version that became “Controlled Remote Viewing.” Swann’s participation with the Stanford Research Institute’s program in the early 1970s, working with the aforementioned Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ, is seen as foundational. He, for instance, provided a striking demonstration in his remote viewing of Jupiter, later said to match Voyager findings.

Swann’s psychic exploration of outer space didn’t stop with Jupiter, however. He was also tasked with psychically examining both the Moon and Mars, specifically in regards to potential extraterrestrial presences. What he found was as shocking as it was consequential to his later framing of what he saw as the limiting of humankind’s vast psychic potential in the modern world. And it’s that very matter in particular, outlined in his books Star Fire and Penetration, that we’re going to explore in this, the 119th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

Since the very beginning of this podcast, we’ve been exploring the various experiences people report having, across time and across cultures, that speak to outlier events; events that defy easy categorization, especially within our modern, Western milieu. Here we’re speaking of events that are not only unusual, but that manifest in such a way as to appear—simply put—impossible, at least according to so-called “modern” understanding. Because of the bewildering—”does not compute” nature of these events, we’ve often resorted to doubting the witnesses themselves, calling them everything from prone to exaggeration, to delusional, to frauds.

And yet, the vast numbers of these events—once you dare begin to collect and collate the date in a dedicated, objective fashion—suggest such easy—and let’s call a spade a spade here—lazy dismissals, simply can’t stand as a legitimate assessment. Indeed, on this podcast, the sheer preponderance of these highly strange experiences has led us to not only catalog and compare them, but also to ask: what model of reality could possibly emerge to help us understand them? If these are “real”—as a phenomenological approach to the data would certainly suggest they are—then what does that say of the nature of our reality, itself?

Some would suggest—and have long suggested, going back to the dawn of our civilization, in fact—that we have everything upside down and inside out. That is to say, from this perspective, the problem lies not with these so-called outlier experiences, but with our insistence that this—which is to say: everything we see manifesting around us in apparently solid, physical form—is actually base reality. These people would unapologetically suggest it is in fact not; that this is a hall of mirrors, if you will, a carefully crafted illusion that hides, behind a veil, a deeper “true” existence, one not defined by the duality we see so evident in our day to day lives “here”.

The movement and/or perspective we’re speaking of here is colloquially known as “gnosticism.” Gnosis is a Greek term meaning “knowledge,” specifically direct, experiential knowledge of the divine or ultimate reality. Adherents of gnosticism are quick to point out that this is not mere belief—arising from some external authority or doctrine—but rather a knowing based on direct, first-hand experience. This notion of a direct, first-hand, felt-sense of the ultimately real, helps us make sense of why so many experiencers report these events as being “more real than real.” If these people are indeed experiencing modes of existence and/or states of being beyond the veil, as it were, then this of course is exactly what we would expect them to report.

It’s important to ask: why does this notion of our waking experience not being ultimately real prove so enduring? Why does some version of this perspective show up over and over again across time and space within human experience; evident in everything from Vedanta to Buddhism to Jungian depth psychology? Perhaps even more compellingly—at least to modern ears—why are elements of this perspective evident in our most cutting-edge physics, astronomy and neuroscience? More to the point, if this is indeed a truer apprehension of ultimate reality, then what are the implications, and how now shall we live? These are precisely the matters that we’ll seek to unpack in this, the 118th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

Over the course of the last few Point of Convergence episodes, we’ve been exploring how the complexity, nuance—and sometimes downright inconvenient nature—of the UFO Phenomenon data, ultimately serves to invite us into a series of questions that not only inform our inquiry into our place in the cosmos—in other words, are we alone or not—but also—and more importantly—even deeper questions, about who we ultimately are, and what the nature of this—our shared experience of what we call “reality”—is actually all about.

In today’s episode we’re going to delve into the experiences of one particular abductee/contactee, in order to observe her process of trying to understand and ultimately integrate a lifetime of anomalous encounters with apparent NHI—non-human intelligences. We’re also going to see that deep soul searching unfolding in ongoing dialogue with a therapist particularly well-equipped for this kind of work—a therapist employing a therapeutic approach involving an overlap with the role of a traditional shaman, further shaping those perspectives through the lens of depth psychology.

One reason—among many reasons—why the shamanically-informed perspective can be particularly helpful here, is that it offers a richly nuanced understanding of the potentially transformative role of trauma in—not just these particular anomalous encounters—but in all aspects of human life; ultimately seeing it as a potent gateway to deeper aspects of the self. By now we’re all very familiar with the discombobulating nature of these experiences. It’s a staple of the anomalous encounter, and that’s true whether the event is ultimately understood as being positive, negative or neutral by the experiencer themselves. All that is to say, trauma, to one extent or another, is pretty much a given here.

Considering our ongoing inquiry on Point of Convergence into the intersection between the UFO Phenomenon and what one might call spiritual transformation, a key question emerges: does trauma end up being incidentally used as a portal for non-dual awakening, or is it deliberately brought about to facilitate that process? In other words, is the trauma incidental, or intentional, in service of the desired outcome? What does the body of data suggest is actually going on here? These are precisely the prickly yet particularly pertinent matters that we’ll seek to engage with in this, the 116th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

Since the dawn of what has come to be colloquially referred to as the modern UFO Phenomenon, two very divergent aspects have emerged to create a situation that appears—on the face of it—utterly irreconcilable. On the one hand, this phenomenon is supported by evidence gathered in what we call “the real world”, that is to say “physical reality”. This evidence includes radar returns, electromagnetic effects, soil traces, multiple, independent witness accounts, biological effects on witnesses, photographic and video evidence, and more.

On the other hand, the testimony of those who have apparently interacted with this Phenomenon suggests an experience that defies our very understanding of what can be “real”. These elements include: precognition of future events, memories from lifetimes beyond this one—including as forms not exclusively human—the encountering of spaces that seem much larger from within than without, movement through the environment sometimes with the body, and sometimes without, etc.

Another key component that arises not just in the Contact phenomenon, but also in near-death experiences, is the uncanny sense that what we call “the real world” is somehow less “real” than the modes of existence or states of being in which these so-called “non-ordinary” experiences occur. And let us be clear: if we are to take these accounts at face-value, it would appear that what we have long referred to as “the real world” is actually subsidiary to one or more subsuming realms, and that even what we refer to as “the self” is actually a truncated and fractional expression of a much more dynamic, multifaceted identity that exists outside of spacetime altogether.

Speaking of space and time, also particularly pertinent here is the paradoxical and perplexing way that certain notions expressed in what are referred to as the archetypes, and in astrology, seem to comport—with a confounding degree of precision—with the unfolding of our actual experience of reality, giving rise to prickly questions about determinism and free will. Indeed, these apparently pre-existing patterns of manifestation—that point to an underlying symbolic geometry—call into question the very naturalistic assumptions that are at the core of physicalism, the present dominant paradigm widely ascribed to within Western civilization.

All of this so-called “high strangeness” converges to point to a deeper truth that is truly astonishing: namely that the experiences of our lives are not arising either as real or symbolic (as in our long-standing distinction between the reality of waking vs. dream states), but rather as—simultaneously—both. And yes, not surprisingly, this has profound implications regarding the nature of the self, and the nature of existence. These are precisely the paradigm-shattering, mind-expanding matters that we’ll seek to engage with in this, the 115th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

For those who have been involved in ufology for decades, the last few weeks have been particularly noteworthy. And that’s because what we’ve been seeing unfolding in our midst can best be described by a term reserved only for historical events involving a verifiable barrage of unidentified flying objects. The term in question is “flap”. And, without doubt, we have indeed been living through one of those moments. And of course, as many predicted would be the case, with almost everyone in the modern world walking around with a smartphone, the footage being captured during this modern-day flap has been, to say the least, abundant.

That being the case, plenty of controversy and difference of opinion has also been a-swarm, along with these apparently unidentified anomalous phenomena. And that’s because there is more than one perspective being floated to explain what is being observed. In addition to smartphones, the modern world has also equipped us with a new kind of aerial vehicle; a vehicle known, of course, as a “drone”. These are unmanned vehicles that, while at first suffering from pretty considerable limitations in terms of range and flight time, have become increasingly sophisticated over the last few years, to the point where future wars will eventually be fought with these kinds of vehicles dominating the skies.

While the conventional crowd will cry foul, suggesting this is not a flap at all, but merely a period of increased drone activity, some of the data being captured simply don’t support such a one-dimensional hypothesis. And that’s because the behavior of these vehicles has been reported – on numerous occasions – to be… well, anomalous. That is to say, while not every one of the aerial objects capturing attention – and stoking concern – seem better described as UAP, rather than drones, some definitely are. In fact, Lue Elizondo, who coined the term “the 5 observables” to define a UAP, has come out publicly stating that some of these objects are indeed displaying such behavior. And in that sense, they are therefore, by definition: UAP.

Of course, the behavior and plenitude of these objects in our skies alone does not explain why this particular flap is causing so much concern, and raising so much ire for an increasingly broad swath of our government, and our society at large. Even more concerning is the fact that these vehicles are operating – with apparent impunity – above the most secure, sensitive air bases and nuclear sites the United States possesses. Even, for instance, forcing the closing of the ufologically famous Wright-Patterson air force base in the process. And to the skeptics saying there’s nothing to see here but the standard hobby and commercial drones, Lue Elizondo, again, has aptly pointed out that: “You don’t close U.S. military air bases because there’s legally flying commercial drones in your airspace. That doesn’t make sense.”

But if they’re not commercial or hobby drones, then that of course raises concerns that these may be the property of U.S. adversaries like China or Russia, stoking fears that such a provocation could suggest we’re on the verge of WW3. But to counter this notion, U.S. authorities have repeatedly stated that they do not believe these are the property of U.S. adversaries. And furthermore, these sightings have spread well beyond the United States, now appearing in countries right around the world. To add further spice to an historical flap of epic proportions, in addition to the so-called “drones” – or “drone-like” vehicles, what are also being sighted regularly in the U.S. northeast and around the world, are the so-called orbs that have drawn increasing focus amongst ufologists over the last few years.

So with all this said, what exactly is going on here? Let’s call out the elephant in the room and ask: are these vehicles, at least a portion of them, being operated by non-human intelligences? And does the scale of this operation suggest that we are, as we speak, experiencing what has come to be known as “catastrophic disclosure”? And if that is the case, this prompts a further question: why now? Is all of this anomalous activity tied to the convergence of daunting forces that seem to have humankind dancing at the precipice of self-destruction? These are precisely the matters we’ll seek to engage with in this, the 110th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

As our society begins to host dinner-table conversations around the reality of non-human intelligences co-occupying our space here on and around planet Earth, certain assumptions are inevitably being applied before even a single word is spoken. On previous episodes of this podcast we’ve discussed how the notion that these beings are extraterrestrials, that is to say – “space aliens” – has been one of the most frequent assumptions applied.

Even today, that continues to be the case, because the other origin hypotheses that had been floated; namely interdimensional, extradimensional/celestial, cryptoterrestrial, ultraterrestrial, extratempestrial, etc, are really only being bandied about within the dedicated ufological community. We (those who are part of that community, that is) know, of course, that it is the data themselves that lead people to these other possibilities; but Joe and Jane Public just are not there yet. They’re still parsing along the lines of the headline grabbing: “we’re not alone, and they’re here!”

As it turns out, though, that pre-assigned notion as to origins is just one of a whole host of assumptions regularly being applied to this matter of the UFO Phenomenon. And again, for those of us intimately familiar with this topic, we know full well that the many of the other assumptions being applied are equally as either questionable, or fully outdated, in light of the decades–and many would argue, even centuries or even millennia-long–data at our disposal.

While those who’ve been in this field the longest–the true “lifers”–if you will, are no doubt cheering the entrance of mainstream academia into the mix in recent years, I would caution that this segment of our society is bringing its own set of pre-existing assumptions to the table as well.

And, again, some of those assumptions just don’t play well with this data. And in our race for conventional recognition, we should be careful to not sell the process short, because academia, too, will have its understanding stretched (to say the very least) by the nature of this data.

This same is true for religious adherents of one form or another. The fact that this data does seem to include what we might call “spiritual overtones” often leads this religiously-affiliated segment of our civilization to the conclusion that this puts the UFO Phenomenon data firmly in their worldview camp, leading them to gleefully proclaim that this shows that they’ve been “right all along”. In both these cases (for those academically and/or religiously inclined), the problem arises in their assumption that the interpretive grid they have at their disposal is generally sufficient to make sense of this anomalous data, and that all they need to do now is slot various data points into various categories of pre-agreed meaning.

Simply put, that will not work. I tend to agree with Peter Levenda’s contention here, suggesting that what this data really asks us to do is consider our reality models from the perspective of the Phenomenon, and not the other way around. The question then becomes: as we do this, just how far afield will this take us? And what elements of our various pre-existing conceptual models will be left standing when we’re done?

And what alternatives might we tentatively put in their place? And these are precisely the issues we’ll seek to engage with in this, the 108th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

As we speak, both within ufology and within the segments of the political and public spheres that are beginning to wrestle with this enigmatic topic, we are seeing ongoing debate about how much the intelligences behind what we colloquially refer to as “the Phenomenon” should be framed as a threat–or at least a “potential threat”–or not. Some argue “better safe than sorry”, in lobbying for an approach that assumes this is a threat until proven otherwise.

As we delved into in the last episode of Point of Convergence, much of that particular argument leans on the notion that we have pretty much zero understanding as to the intent of these non-conventional others. But, as I pointed out in that episode, the wealth of experiencer testimony at our disposal would suggest otherwise, for within that extensive body of data we see consistent messages provided by these non-human others to the human beings who have interacted with them.

But even beyond this particular matter, which is already controversial because it ventures into questions around what kind of data should be considered “legitimate” and “trustworthy” or not, the lore we just referenced goes well beyond offering potential answers to the question of whether or not this amounts to a threat or not, even touching on ultimate matters such as the nature of reality, and even an alternate history regarding human origins.

What is perhaps most challenging of all to our secular, and still largely physicalist (that is to say reductionistic materialist) Western civilization, is notions that arise in the experiencer data that speak to what might best be called “spirituality”. This challenges our typical conceptions because most see this entire matter as involving technology and a potential clash of space-faring civilizations, not one delving into ultimate meaning and the evolution of souls. And yet, that is indeed where this body of data goes, which perhaps only adds fuel to the fire, in terms of why this lore is not taken as legitimate by the powers-that-be.

If experiencer lore stretches our expectations regarding what the UFO Phenomenon is even ultimately about, in what precise ways does it do so? And how do these elements in particular make our contemporary meaning-making machine uncomfortable? And how might the ignoring of those elements, simply because they are unexpected and inconvenient, potentially create a scenario where we miss the forest for the proverbial trees? These are precisely the issues we’ll seek to gain clarity around in this, the 107th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

While modern ufology has been a component of our cultural zeitgeist for decades and decades now, during much of that time it has generally been seen as a matter for astrophysicists and aviation experts. While ground-breaking researchers such as Jacques Vallee, John Keel and J. Allen Hynek, as early as the 1970s, suggested the anomalous and highly strange nature of the data takes us well beyond that kind of conventional inquiry, even today, the mainstream still tends to think of UFOs (now monikered as UAP) and NHI – the fancy new name for what we use to call “aliens”, as involving interstellar travelers arriving at Earth in sophisticated spacecraft.

For many, especially in still physicalist-centric Western civilization, this kind of enterprise represents, at least in potentia, a new kind of contact, and a new possibility for communication that takes us beyond what we’ve been limited to amongst our own species over the milenia. But, here again, the data – when one actually looks squarely into them – take us well beyond that notion. And that’s because – contact – and specifically contact with apparently non-human and non-conventionally human intelligences – has supposedly already been happening. The varieties of contact technologies or modalities that have meditated this non-ordinary kind of communication include mediumship/channeling, shamanic journeying, CE-5/HICE, dreams, psychedelics, and even fever states.

In other words, the issue seems to be not one of needing to wait for interstellar travelers to arrive to finally give us this opportunity, for it’s been available to us all along, with some cultures and people groups being more privy to this fact than others. Interestingly, these various modalities of contact and communication also seem to be possible regardless of what would seem to be the expected language and even species-specific differences. And that’s because mind-to-mind communication, known in parapsychological circles as telepathy, seems to be the general rule rather than the exception in these endeavors, thus bypassing the need for translation of written and spoken languages altogether.

But of course, these startling revelations raise further questions: if the issue is not one of needing to wait for interstellar travelers to arrive via superliminal (that is, faster than light) travel, then how exactly is this contact and communication happening? Have they been here – in our so-called “physical” space – all along? Or does the nature of this contact suggest space, and for that matter, time, is simply not what we’ve long assumed? How is it that these various contact technologies are able to connect us with alternative forms of sophisticated sentience, and what do they have in common that makes them effective? These are the captivating and consequential matters we’ll seek to engage with in this, the 105th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

Beginning with the revelations that arose in a now famous 2017 New York Times article titled “Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program”, and further brought to light with the allegations made by former military insiders like Luis Elizondo and David Grusch, the general public is being slowly acclimated to a reality that those of us who are part of this community have long known to be the case: non-human intelligences and their technological marvels have been (and continue to be) in our very midst.

Still, for those of us who regularly dive deep into these murky (but often exhilarating) waters, we know that these revelations – as startling as they are to the average Joe and Jane on the street – are really just the beginning. And that’s because, simply put, there are numerous elements of human experience that simply don’t play well with the prevailing paradigm that rules in Western civilization – at least at present. These elements include out of body experiences, near death experiences, psi phenomena, synchronicity, contact with supposed deceased loved ones, and time slippages. And that’s just for starters.

Not only do these elements that have historically been forced to the fringes of polite conversation stretch the mainstream’s understanding of what’s possible, they also call into question the very maps we’ve so confidently crafted to make sense of what’s real altogether. For instance, when it comes to the matter of dealing with sophisticated, apparently non-human intelligences (ie. aliens), not only do we have the matter of the DoD allegedly housing the recovered craft and even the cadavers of non-human life forms – life forms that are decidedly biological, just like us – also on the table are the credible accounts of a host of other kind of non-conventional encounters.

Truth be told, there is a considerable body of data pointing to encounters with beings that are better described as ethereal, though – importantly – no less “real”. These beings are described by people from different walks of life in such consistent ways that they seem to claim just as much “real” and independent existence as we do. Other life forms that people encounter are perhaps better described as quasi-physical, and still others seem to navigate between these different domains like we might move between different rooms of a house.

Furthermore, human beings sometimes find themselves acting outside of their own bodies – and even outside of this 3D “physical” construct altogether – interacting with alien beings of various sorts and sometimes even with their own supposedly deceased loved ones in the process. The beings encountered also seem capable of moving human consciousness in ways that sometimes include the physical body, and other times do not. In short, what’s being highlighted here is the untenable nature of the physicalist paradigm altogether.

But all this being the case, how are we to proceed? If our modern maps have been exposed as – at best – approximations reflecting only one tiny corner of a much more expansive territory, how are we to make our way forward? And how can we reconcile the seemingly illusory boundaries between the living and the dead, sleep and waking states, and physical and ethereal realms? This all amounts to some pretty ambitious inquiry. But these are exactly the matters that we’ll seek to engage with in this the 104th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

Seeing the matter of UAP, or, as they have more traditionally been named: UFOs, unidentified flying objects, move through the halls of Congress, apparently towards some kind of official government disclosure, one might assume that what we’re dealing with is the rather clear cut matter of alien beings arising from elsewhere in our vast galaxy, visiting us in their sophisticated nuts and bolts spacecraft. Many assume this is the logical starting point based on what we think we know of the frontiers that are yet to be explored by our modern species.

However, if one pays close attention one notices the peculiar matter of the fact that these beings are referred to in official government documentation, specifically the so-called Schumer amendment, as “non-human intelligence”. No mention of the term “extraterrestrial” or “alien” can be found. Many have speculated that this is because the nature of these beings is perhaps more exotic than our sci-fi tropes would have us believe.

In truth, the exotic nature of this matter of the UFO Phenomenon goes far beyond simply the origin of the beings themselves. For if one spends any amount of time studying the nuances of this Phenomenon, it becomes clear that some very peculiar goings-on are seemingly baked-in to the entire enterprise. The term “high strangeness” has been coined to encapsulate the many aspects that are peculiar, mind-bending, and sometimes even apparently absurd.

In fact, the ways experiences with this Phenomenon tend to stretch – in cognitively uncomfortable ways – our very notions of what we think even can happen in a rational universe, are so frequent, and so seemingly impossible, that many have wondered if this is telling us that our conventional model of reality is, simply put, just wrong altogether. If these incidents of high strangeness are “real”, then how can our model be sufficient to account for what can arise in our material universe?

And to that point, in light of the bizarre nature of these experiences, is it even accurate to see the stage we traipse upon as a “material universe”, at all? In other words, does the very mind-bending nature of these experiences suggest that perhaps this is exactly where we should look for the locus of reality itself: in mind? And are these events arising from the machinations of our individual minds, a collective mind, or some combination of the two? These are the matters we’ll seek to explore in this, the 102nd episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.