Throughout the history of ufology, researchers have been attempting to make sense of both the technology and the nature of the intelligences behind the anomalous phenomena that have been observed and interacted with. Inevitably, those researchers have ended up looking to emerging human science and technology for potential understanding. And so, not surprisingly, leading conceptions of what the UFO Phenomenon represents have evolved over time as our own technology and models of reality have evolved.

The issue with this, however, is that we are often not accounting for how our modern conceptions are tied to the myth-making that human beings inevitably engage in in order to make sense of who we are, and indeed, what this (i.e. reality) is. And in that sense, of course, we are following in the footsteps of our ancestors who did the very same thing. To be alive is to engage in such narrative-framing. Looking backwards, we are often quick to belittle earlier myth-making attempts, accusing our ancestors of being naive, unscientific story-tellers, while simultaneously completely missing the fact that we too weave narratives about reality, also often based on notions we lack solid evidence for.

This is why the UFO Phenomenon emerges as the simultaneously intoxicating but confounding and discombobulating matter it is. Fascinatingly—and perhaps tellingly— it often seems to manifest in such a way as to poke holes in our latest myth. And in so-doing, it helps those within the societal structure—those with a keen and discerning eye, that is—to see our collective narrative as such, as myth.

Note here that myth doesn’t necessarily mean “untrue”, it just refers to a society’s collective sense of “the real”. The data arising from these ufological investigations so often confounds our consensus conceptions of reality that it’s fair to ask if that may indeed be one of the central purposes of the entire enigma. Before us, of course, were those who framed reality within a theological lens. In going through this very same process, they too ran into the very same conundrum, leading them to, like us, often exclude, ignore or explain away the elements that “didn’t play well” with the contemporary myth.

How are we to proceed with these considerations in mind? Is it a fool’s errand to chase a specter that seems to change its guise just when we think we’ve pinned it down? Or should we accept that this game of hide and seek involves stretching our very understanding of what’s possible? These are the simultaneously mystifying but mesmerizingly captivating matters we’ll seek to engage with in this, the 113th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

Throughout the course of this podcast we’ve been weaving together topics often discussed in isolation; topics including UFOs, psychic phenomena, and near-death experiences, among others. Research into these topics not only shows that they overlap–in terms of who experiences them and how they are changed as a result–but they also all point to a particular kind of reality-scape: one composed of, for lack of a better term, Mind; mind expressed both individually and collectively, and everywhere in between.

Fascinatingly–and consequentially–these mindforms seem to interpenetrate, with porous boundaries that allow us both a temporary and meaningful sense of individuality, while also affording us the ability to tune into each other, and to the various non-human beings all around us, as well as into the very fabric of multidimensional reality itself, which is yet again a matter of mind; a mindscape, if you will.

While the data around these matters are overwhelming, old habits tend to die hard. Which is to say, even within ufology there has been a longstanding tendency to push the so-called “woo” aspects of the Phenomenon to the fringes; often leaving those who’ve actually had the experiences with the Phenomenon to discuss these anomalous events amongst themselves, while the “nuts ‘n boltsers” carry on discussing the supposed craft and the beings arriving from Alpha Centauri.

Part of the reasoning for the more nuts ‘n bolts crowd, of course, arises from a desire to see this topic make more of a dent in the mainstream, by forcing the government to come clean about what it knows about these otherworldly matters and the programs it has stood up to investigate such them. Needless to say, things for those folks have taken a bit of a left turn of late, because the details arising from those very government programs are suggesting the so-called “woo” is right at the heart of this entire matter.

Recent whistleblowers like Jacob Barber have emerged to not only confirm that the government, along with various defense contractors, haw been engaged in historic UFO recovery programs, but also that human beings seem to be able to both contact and even “summon” these vehicles through the power of mental intention alone. And so here we are yet again, at the intersection of Mind and Mind. Mind that allows for effortless interspecies communication, and mind to call and control the anomalous craft.

To say this is a shock to the system for modern Western civilization is an understatement of enormous proportions. After all, many Westerners still orient around the notion that mind is nothing more than a temporary epiphenomenon of material stuff. And yet, the point of convergence we’ve been exploring the last few years on this podcast suggests that model of reality is fully upside-down; having missed the forest for the proverbial trees.

This has major implications in a whole host of ways. But perhaps one of the most striking involves the fact that various non-human intelligences can – and indeed have been – interacting with humanity all along; sometimes in direct ways, and sometimes through mental influence alone. And considering the evidence arising suggests that while some of these intelligences have our best interests at heart, others do not, this ignorance on the part of modern society is highly consequential.

Furthermore, this process of distracting us away from the true nature of things – perhaps willfully imposed by both human and non-human forces – has not only made us easily manipulable, but it’s also kept us in the dark as to our true potential; a potential, again, that goes to the very heart of our true nature, and to the heart of reality itself. These are the pivotal matters that we’ll seek to explore in this, the 112th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

In recent times, considerable focus has been on the march towards some form of official UAP disclosure. Throughout that period, momentum has been arising from congressional attempts to surface information in light of intelligence gathered within various branches of the military and the intelligence community; that is to say, based on data and assessments from within “the government” itself.

Based on this government-centric approach, one might come to the illusory conclusion that this is the only real source of information available; the main repository or “raw data”, if you will. In reality, nothing could be further from the truth. While many assume the only way ufology will gain traction in the mainstream is if and when government makes some sort of official acknowledgement of the data they have amassed over the decades, myriad compelling and dara-rich reports already exist in the public at large.

A key – but often underrepresented and under-discussed – component of that data available within the public domain, arises from people of indigenous descent. These peoples, often also referred to as First Nations, or more colloquially, within the United States, as “American Indians”, have a remarkably deep and diverse lore pertaining to these matters. And this lore not only touches on a plethora of encounters with non-human and non-conventionally human intelligences, over many generations, but it also speaks to a self-understanding of origins, related to these very so-called “star people”.

Part of the challenge in having these reports considered as part of our ongoing data gathering efforts has been that these peoples, so often marginalized in the mainstream, have been reticent to share their accounts with the public at large. This is where Dr. Ardy Sixkiller Clarke’s legacy comes in. She is both a university professor and herself of Cherokee/Choctaw descent. And this has provided her unique access to these underrepresented peoples. Furthermore, Clarke has dedicated years of her life to visiting these various tribes, in both North and South America, and diligently recording their accounts for posterity’s sake.

What’s fascinating about Clarke’s work is not just how vast a body of data it is, but also how incredibly diverse it is. Her work, perhaps more than any other researcher of recent memory, uncovers just how many different forms of non-human and – just as importantly – non-conventionally-human intelligences appear to be in our midst; even teasing the possibility that some of those non-conventional life forms have relationships (and perhaps even genetic links) with particular ethnicities amongst the present Earth population. And these are precisely the fascinating and consequential matters we’ll seek to engage with in this, the 109th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

As our society begins to host dinner-table conversations around the reality of non-human intelligences co-occupying our space here on and around planet Earth, certain assumptions are inevitably being applied before even a single word is spoken. On previous episodes of this podcast we’ve discussed how the notion that these beings are extraterrestrials, that is to say – “space aliens” – has been one of the most frequent assumptions applied.

Even today, that continues to be the case, because the other origin hypotheses that had been floated; namely interdimensional, extradimensional/celestial, cryptoterrestrial, ultraterrestrial, extratempestrial, etc, are really only being bandied about within the dedicated ufological community. We (those who are part of that community, that is) know, of course, that it is the data themselves that lead people to these other possibilities; but Joe and Jane Public just are not there yet. They’re still parsing along the lines of the headline grabbing: “we’re not alone, and they’re here!”

As it turns out, though, that pre-assigned notion as to origins is just one of a whole host of assumptions regularly being applied to this matter of the UFO Phenomenon. And again, for those of us intimately familiar with this topic, we know full well that the many of the other assumptions being applied are equally as either questionable, or fully outdated, in light of the decades–and many would argue, even centuries or even millennia-long–data at our disposal.

While those who’ve been in this field the longest–the true “lifers”–if you will, are no doubt cheering the entrance of mainstream academia into the mix in recent years, I would caution that this segment of our society is bringing its own set of pre-existing assumptions to the table as well.

And, again, some of those assumptions just don’t play well with this data. And in our race for conventional recognition, we should be careful to not sell the process short, because academia, too, will have its understanding stretched (to say the very least) by the nature of this data.

This same is true for religious adherents of one form or another. The fact that this data does seem to include what we might call “spiritual overtones” often leads this religiously-affiliated segment of our civilization to the conclusion that this puts the UFO Phenomenon data firmly in their worldview camp, leading them to gleefully proclaim that this shows that they’ve been “right all along”. In both these cases (for those academically and/or religiously inclined), the problem arises in their assumption that the interpretive grid they have at their disposal is generally sufficient to make sense of this anomalous data, and that all they need to do now is slot various data points into various categories of pre-agreed meaning.

Simply put, that will not work. I tend to agree with Peter Levenda’s contention here, suggesting that what this data really asks us to do is consider our reality models from the perspective of the Phenomenon, and not the other way around. The question then becomes: as we do this, just how far afield will this take us? And what elements of our various pre-existing conceptual models will be left standing when we’re done?

And what alternatives might we tentatively put in their place? And these are precisely the issues we’ll seek to engage with in this, the 108th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

Even as our modern mainstream society begins to grapple with the notion that non-human intelligences of a sophisticated nature are in our midst, piloting remarkably unconventional, and beyond next-gen technological craft, there is still a key component of this cultural conversation that is missing: and that is the consideration of the testimony of those who’ve apparently already encountered these very intelligences. Now, if one were unfamiliar with experiencer lore, one might conclude that we have almost zero understanding as to the intent of these various non-human others. In fact, this is basically what some, otherwise well-meaning, pro-disclosure advocates, have publicly stated – that we have no idea as to why they’re here, or what they want.

But if and when one does pay attention to said experiencer lore, it quickly becomes evident that nothing could be further from the truth. Now, does that mean that we should take everything said in these circles at face value. Certainly not. We still want to apply standard witness credibility criteria to these statements. And we also want to look for the aspects of the testimony that represent the greatest consensus. But to ignore this testimony altogether is not only unwise – after all, wouldn’t we want to hear what has been reportedly said to those who’ve interacted with these beings? – but it’s also inaccurate/inauthentic, because it lets those new to the conversation believe that this is a complete unknown, which only adds to fear states that are already driving far too much of our contemporary societal dialogue.

When one does pay attention to experiencer testimony, it becomes clear that these beings have been speaking pretty pointedly to some very specific issues. One element that is brought up frequently is that we as a species have lost touch with our connection to the planet, and even more overarchingly, to the larger cosmic community of which we are all a part. Furthermore, not only is that disconnect unfortunate, but it is also highly consequential, because it is that misunderstanding that is giving rise to the very existential threats we are now facing as a collective.

But beyond even these clearly and regularly stated messages, part of the communication also frequently touches on how we’ve lost touch with our most essential nature: a nature that stretches beyond the parameters of this one individual lifetime. In fact, it’s made clear by many of these non-conventional beings that this loss of context is driving us into a kind of individual and collective madness, one where we let pursuits like materialism become the orienting principle of our lives, even when that dogged pursuit begins to devolve into disease in our collective consciousness, reflected in, among other things, ecological disaster and frayed human mental health.

Of course, much of this speaks to the notion of “journeys of souls” and even of “soul contracts”. And, if that’s the case, what does this say of the nature of these beings? Are they “spiritual” figures, or “biological ones”, just like us? Of course, that false dichotomy is at the very heart of our present conundrum. Just who are these beings? And how does their very nature, and even their technology, tend to collapse our present paradigm? And how does the potential of that very collapse serve as the seed for a new way of being; one that restores the relationships we’ve so deeply fallen out of alignment with? These are the ultimate matters, both technological and metaphysical in nature, that we’ll seek to engage with in this, the 106th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

While modern ufology has been a component of our cultural zeitgeist for decades and decades now, during much of that time it has generally been seen as a matter for astrophysicists and aviation experts. While ground-breaking researchers such as Jacques Vallee, John Keel and J. Allen Hynek, as early as the 1970s, suggested the anomalous and highly strange nature of the data takes us well beyond that kind of conventional inquiry, even today, the mainstream still tends to think of UFOs (now monikered as UAP) and NHI – the fancy new name for what we use to call “aliens”, as involving interstellar travelers arriving at Earth in sophisticated spacecraft.

For many, especially in still physicalist-centric Western civilization, this kind of enterprise represents, at least in potentia, a new kind of contact, and a new possibility for communication that takes us beyond what we’ve been limited to amongst our own species over the milenia. But, here again, the data – when one actually looks squarely into them – take us well beyond that notion. And that’s because – contact – and specifically contact with apparently non-human and non-conventionally human intelligences – has supposedly already been happening. The varieties of contact technologies or modalities that have meditated this non-ordinary kind of communication include mediumship/channeling, shamanic journeying, CE-5/HICE, dreams, psychedelics, and even fever states.

In other words, the issue seems to be not one of needing to wait for interstellar travelers to arrive to finally give us this opportunity, for it’s been available to us all along, with some cultures and people groups being more privy to this fact than others. Interestingly, these various modalities of contact and communication also seem to be possible regardless of what would seem to be the expected language and even species-specific differences. And that’s because mind-to-mind communication, known in parapsychological circles as telepathy, seems to be the general rule rather than the exception in these endeavors, thus bypassing the need for translation of written and spoken languages altogether.

But of course, these startling revelations raise further questions: if the issue is not one of needing to wait for interstellar travelers to arrive via superliminal (that is, faster than light) travel, then how exactly is this contact and communication happening? Have they been here – in our so-called “physical” space – all along? Or does the nature of this contact suggest space, and for that matter, time, is simply not what we’ve long assumed? How is it that these various contact technologies are able to connect us with alternative forms of sophisticated sentience, and what do they have in common that makes them effective? These are the captivating and consequential matters we’ll seek to engage with in this, the 105th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

Beginning with the revelations that arose in a now famous 2017 New York Times article titled “Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program”, and further brought to light with the allegations made by former military insiders like Luis Elizondo and David Grusch, the general public is being slowly acclimated to a reality that those of us who are part of this community have long known to be the case: non-human intelligences and their technological marvels have been (and continue to be) in our very midst.

Still, for those of us who regularly dive deep into these murky (but often exhilarating) waters, we know that these revelations – as startling as they are to the average Joe and Jane on the street – are really just the beginning. And that’s because, simply put, there are numerous elements of human experience that simply don’t play well with the prevailing paradigm that rules in Western civilization – at least at present. These elements include out of body experiences, near death experiences, psi phenomena, synchronicity, contact with supposed deceased loved ones, and time slippages. And that’s just for starters.

Not only do these elements that have historically been forced to the fringes of polite conversation stretch the mainstream’s understanding of what’s possible, they also call into question the very maps we’ve so confidently crafted to make sense of what’s real altogether. For instance, when it comes to the matter of dealing with sophisticated, apparently non-human intelligences (ie. aliens), not only do we have the matter of the DoD allegedly housing the recovered craft and even the cadavers of non-human life forms – life forms that are decidedly biological, just like us – also on the table are the credible accounts of a host of other kind of non-conventional encounters.

Truth be told, there is a considerable body of data pointing to encounters with beings that are better described as ethereal, though – importantly – no less “real”. These beings are described by people from different walks of life in such consistent ways that they seem to claim just as much “real” and independent existence as we do. Other life forms that people encounter are perhaps better described as quasi-physical, and still others seem to navigate between these different domains like we might move between different rooms of a house.

Furthermore, human beings sometimes find themselves acting outside of their own bodies – and even outside of this 3D “physical” construct altogether – interacting with alien beings of various sorts and sometimes even with their own supposedly deceased loved ones in the process. The beings encountered also seem capable of moving human consciousness in ways that sometimes include the physical body, and other times do not. In short, what’s being highlighted here is the untenable nature of the physicalist paradigm altogether.

But all this being the case, how are we to proceed? If our modern maps have been exposed as – at best – approximations reflecting only one tiny corner of a much more expansive territory, how are we to make our way forward? And how can we reconcile the seemingly illusory boundaries between the living and the dead, sleep and waking states, and physical and ethereal realms? This all amounts to some pretty ambitious inquiry. But these are exactly the matters that we’ll seek to engage with in this the 104th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

In the recent move towards a more mainstream consideration of the enigma colloquially known as the UFO Phenomenon, we are seeing increasing discussion around the alleged technology recovered. We are also seeing robust conversation arising around whether or not this anomalous technology may have made its way into the top-secret craft being developed and operated by the military industrial complex, by way of successful reverse engineering.

While such a move is a welcome sign for ufologists and those who are merely enthused about the topic alike, this development leaves out one absolutely fundamental component of the entire matter: that of the nature and intentions of the intelligences responsible for such technology. The fact that this obvious implication is not being discussed in the mainstream, perhaps hints at a deep, subconscious nervousness around what this may mean for our civilization’s own self-understanding.

When one adds to the mix the fact that, perhaps, all along, the reality of these various others – these NHI, as they are now referred to in official circles – has been staring us in the face, in the form of the very religious traditions we’ve embraced as our meaning-making models of the world, only adds to this strange sense that there’s something we as a modern civilization have almost willingly turned our gaze away from.

In today’s podcast we’ve going to take a deep dive into the surprisingly compelling notion that the beings, sometimes referred to as “gods”, and sometimes conflated as a single deity in monotheistic traditions, points almost squarely towards the very non-human intelligences said to be responsible for the mysteriously daunting behavior being increasingly recorded in our modern day.

What do our most revered spiritual traditions – when read in the correct context – say of these beings and their role in the seeding and subsequent development of humankind? And what might this mean for what’s happening even now, and where we are headed as a supposedly sophisticated, modern civilization? These are the most consequential matters we’ll seek to engage with in this, the 99th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

While the notion of extraterrestrial life has long captivated the public imagination, certain expectations regarding how such life might interact with us have also proven problematic. Primarily that’s because, being the stubborn species we are, when data doesn’t conform to our expectations, we tend to either ignore it, explain it away, or assume it has been gathered incorrectly, or is even the result of fraudulent reporting. This issue has been paramount in the matter of the modern UFO Phenomenon, because many elements of the reports that have arisen from eye-witness testimony contain elements that stretch our expectations – often to the breaking point and beyond.

A term that has been put forward to explain the various elements that stretch our expectations of how sophisticated non-terrestrial intelligence would interact with us – even to the point of defying rational understanding altogether – is “high strangeness”. Here we see crossover into another domain, that of general paranormality. Now while we modern Westerners would like to keep these bodies of data completely separate – after all, why would extraterrestrials act in ways that are reminiscent of apparitions and poltergeist phenomena, or so the conventional thinking goes — the reality is that these two kinds of data seem to regularly co-arise in people’s experience. And that being the case, it would be unwise to let our pre-existing biases prevent us from seeing linkages that clearly exist in the raw data itself.

Speaking of crossover between domains that tend to be kept distinct in our modern notions of how reality works, we also see startling parallels between the UFO Phenomenon and humanity’s most ancient expressions of religion – collectively referred to as “Shamanism”. The most glaring similarities arise in the experience of reality people report in both Shamanistic journeys, and encounters with supposed “aliens” during contact experiences reported as part of the modern UFO Phenomenon. In both cases people report experiencing the encounter in a seemingly alternate realm or non-ordinary state of consciousness. The question then emerges, pertaining to the UFO Phenomenon, if these really are “space aliens” – that is, physical beings arising from some distant star system – then why would the encounters involve so much overlap with the visionquest encounters reported in Shamanism?

While one can certainly attempt to explain away these parallels in the bodies of data, a more open-minded, objective, and sincere perspective might very well land on the notion that these clues are telling us something fundamental about the nature of reality itself; something that seems to inevitably lead towards a reframing of what it means to be a sentient life form living in a supposedly “physical” universe, as defined under the dictates of scientific materialism. But what precisely is the nature of the overlap between domains/topics such as Shamanism and experiences that fall within the modern UFO Phenomenon, and where might the implications of these alignments lead us? These are the mind-stretching and paradigm-collapsing matters we’ll seek to delve more deeply into, in this, the 96th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.

Over the last 12 months or so, those associated with ufology have seen their excitement level around the matter of official disclosure reach a fevered pitch. Much of the optimism has been tied to the remarkable specificity of the language included in the Schumer amendment, which makes clear not only that sophisticated, non-human intelligences in our midst exist, but that various elements of the military industrial complex have constructed elaborate schemes to study this phenomenon while shielding this consequential reality not just from the American people, but also from Congress and the rest of government.

While much of that amendment was eventually gutted before being passed into law, in many ways the proverbial train has nevertheless left the station. There is just too much momentum heading into 2024 for this progress to reverse course. It may take longer than some within ufology would prefer, but this march towards an official acknowledgement of the reality of this phenomenon – and the various unconventional intelligences behind it – seems unstoppable at this point.

While this particular matter of when disclosure will actually happen has been front and center in the ufological dialogue over the last year, what has been discussed much less regularly is the matter of what will actually be disclosed. Many of us obsessed with this topic have been so focused on crossing this one particular threshold — yes, this is real, and yes, so are they – that we’ve spent far less time pondering what might be disclosed, or commented upon, beyond this initial civilization-changing acknowledgement.

Truth be told, this is precisely where the challenge really arises for the powers that be. And, frankly, that’s because they really have no clear understanding of where this all leads. Yes, it’s real. Yes, it’s been present in our midst – even if in stealthy manner – for perhaps as long as we’ve been around as a species. But as to its ultimate nature, and how it changes our understanding of fundamental reality, that’s a matter of ongoing contention and confusion – even for the insiders who’ve spent decades studying this, with the highest security clearances available.

For those who take the most overarching view – considering not just the more contemporary manifestation and interpretation of this Phenomenon, but also ways that deep human history seems to point to interactions stretching back millenia – even if described in terms and frames much less familiar and comfortable to modern ears – it’s clear that these other intelligences have not only been with us all along, likely shaping our development across time in the process, but likely were responsible for our very seeding upon this blue pearl of a planet to begin with.

In today’s episode we’ll be taking a deep dive into the ways one can make a very solid case for the notion that ancient encounters with so-called “gods” were ultimately part of the very same enterprise as the more modern UFO/UAP and alien abduction/hybridization enigma. How has framing, and a poor understanding of the different cultural contexts that have tried to make sense of these phenomena over time, obscured the underlying truth of these reality-shaking revelations? These are the very daring, daunting, and highly disruptive matters we’ll be exploring in this, the 95th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.